Stuck On Guns, And Stuck On Stupid

Details: Written by Michael Z Williamson; Created: 23 September 2013

This is why it's impossible to have a rational debate with someone irrational:

Mark Underwood

Shared publicly Sep 17, 2013

Can we have guns sensibly regulated this time?...or are the electorate going to keep letting the NRA push their redneck buttons and persuade them that they have a constitutional right to be senselessly massacred by the next total whacko fruitcake who has easy access to a gun?

No?...OK just let more innocent people die senselessly then right?...what a good idea :-/

John Underwood

Sep 17, 2013

You waste your time on expressing yourself to a nation hell bent on selfdestruction. American's may have many talents but selfless introspection is not amongst them.

Brandon Jamison

Sep 17, 2013

I would like to hear what sensibly controls would have prevented this shooting. And please let's focus on controls surrounding the actual guns.

Mark Underwood

Sep 18, 2013

+Brandon Jamison

All firearms except for hunting rifles that are registered to an active farm or gun club are made illegal.

For 2 years we then impose very large fines on anyone found with a gun, we use the revenue raised from these fines to buy back firearms from those who voluntarily hand them in.

For another year we increase the fines and continue buyback and reward informants who assist in the collection of illegal firearms.

After this initial period of legal grace anyone found with a gun goes to jail for life.

This gets rid of the guns and also any crazy or criminal people who still have guns after the three year period of grace.

Also you now no longer have the hassle of proving cases against criminals...if they have a gun they are criminals by definition...so getting the bad guys off the streets suddenly becomes much more efficient.

Result a much much safer country.

Brandon Jamison

Sep 18, 2013

I said sensible and would have prevented this shooting. Fails on both points.

Mark Underwood

Sep 18, 2013

+Brandon Jamison the sad thing is in a country where guns have been allowed to become as ubiquitous as they are ...this is the only sensible alternative. We just need to face the reality that the evening news confronts us with most nights of the week...or continue to delude ourselves that there is some "safe" way to allow our fellow citizens to walk around carrying murder weapons.

Your conclusion that what i suggest is crazy is causing innocent people to die every day if we do not take the appropriate level of action.

This is not a constitutional debate it is quite simply a state of emergency, it needs to be recognized as such and treated as such by any rational society.

...the question is "are we a rational society?"

Brandon Jamison

Sep 18, 2013

When one wack job shuts down, our nations capital, congress, countless schools and a naval base with a freaking shotgun, the answer is no. So freaking timid...

Are you volunteering to do the first door to door search and seizure? I do not think sensible means what you think it means.

Mark Underwood

Sep 18, 2013

+Brandon Jamison but what is the alternative Brandon ? I have really tried to come up with some watered down alternative but you/I/wee have to face the reality that as long as we accept guns in our society many innocent lives will be lost because of them.

I think you are still not appreciating the seriousness of the situation. Perhaps because it seems normal to you (if you grew up in the States?).

If you did not then your opinion is highly unusual. The only way Americas situation can be seen as anything but sheer insanity is if you have drunk the 2nd amendment coolaid. This was an amendment made for cowboys and indians not modern people packed together like sardines ruled over by a government with drones and cluster bombs.

There is absolutely no justification for arming your electorate except to protect yourself from your fellow armed citizens, which i am sure you would agree is just a ridiculous situation for a rational society to put themselves in.

Brandon Jamison

Sep 18, 2013

Okay a few things before we proceed.

Not a constitutional discussion? You are talking about laws correct? Is not the constitution the highest law in the land?

Cowboys and Indians? Do you mean the Indians who were here before us and not citizens of the US?

Your point made about drones and cluster bombs is exactly why we should not give power over to the government. All other rights are forfeited at that point. The sort of security you talk about already sounds like prison so why would that be a deterrent to possessing weapons?

Mark Underwood

Sep 18, 2013

+Brandon Jamison NO...absolutely no, the constitution is nowhere near as valuable as a persons common sense. The constitution was written by people not gods...even the new pope sees the possibility that god was fallible...so the idea that people hundreds of years ago would have the answers to all our problem for eternity is not reasonable...of course the constitution should be balanced against the common sense of the people.

The constitution is now in direct opposition to my and many other peoples common sense...maybe one day yours too if you trust your own judgement.

You have a choice: honour a small passage in a document written a long time ago by people from a different period and allow people to die on mass...or use your common sense and realize this amendment needs amending.

Living is safety does not sound like a prison to me, living in fear is restrictive but safety = freedom

Brandon Jamison

Sep 18, 2013

+Louis Stell

Louis Stell

Sep 18, 2013

As +Mike Williamson stated so eloquently, alcoholic beverages are responsible for a helluva lot more deaths annually than firearms including THE CHILDREN. If ya'll gun grabbers are so concerned, why not ban and prohibit alcohol, it does no one any good, is not needed, purely a recreational thing responsible for tens of thousands of deaths every year ..................... wait, that didn't work out so well.

As far as confiscation goes, better let that simmer on the backburner for another 30 years or so, still a generation away from the full benefit of the programming.

Or buy a lot more backhoes.

Sheesh.

Brandon Jamison

Sep 18, 2013

The new pope bit was classic!

Mike Williamson

Sep 18, 2013

How about we "sensibly regulate" the internet to reduce the risk of child predators? Professionals, such as me, with background checks, can have internet access at home. Non-professionals can access the internet from libraries. It's not a violation of the First Amendment--we're not telling you what you can say or look at. We're just regulating where you look at it, and logging your browser history to help tackle crime.

Are you reasonable, or are you a free speech nut who supports pedophiles?

Mark Underwood

Yesterday 10:11 AM

If I buy a bottle of wine there is no intention to cause future harm.

If I buy a gun it is the deliberate purchase of a lethal weapon that has been carefully and specifically designed to kill people. It is disingenuous in the extreme to compare things that may cause death accidentally with the use of muder weapons to deliberately slaughter innocent people.

So far this year we have had a mass shooting (more than 4 dead/injured at a time) for 250 out of 261 days!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/17/mass-shootings-us_n_3935978.html

Whilst drinking wine "may" cause unintended injury and death and certainly do, injury and death are not implicit in their use. They also can be demonstrated to to have many positive effects within society, even drinking brings millions of people happiness even though it also brings great sadness.

A gun simply brings death and destruction.

Once you take a loaded gun out of a drawer your purpose is to cause injury and death whether it is self defence or not. You don't take a gun out at a party and watch people smile or laugh...you take out a gun to kill.

If you take out another weapon (a knife?) the purpose may be the same, but it is harder (by a huge order of magnitude) to kill someone with a knife. In fact it is very hard to kill a person with anything except a gun, a gun just takes an imperceptible squeeze from an "emotional removed" distance...and a human being is lost to those who love them forever.

a 4 year old shot his sister in July !...a four year old!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/01/4-year-old-shoots-6-year-old-kentucky-loaded-gun_n_3529486.html

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1	SIMPLE	a	NULL	ref	idx_access,idx_state,idx_catid	idx_catid	4	const	195	16.00	Using where; Using filesort
1	SIMPLE	cc	NULL	const	PRIMARY	PRIMARY	4	const	1	100.00	NULL

id	select_type	table	partitions	type	possible_keys	key	key_len	ref	rows	filtered	Extra
1	SIMPLE	m	NULL	ALL	PRIMARY,published,newsfeeds	NO INDEX KEY COULD BE USED	NULL	NULL	29	3.45	Using where; Using filesort
1	SIMPLE	e	NULL	ref	element_clientid,element_folder_clientid	element_clientid	403	michaelzwilliamson_com.m.module,const	1	10.00	Using index condition; Using where
1	SIMPLE	mm	NULL	ref	PRIMARY	PRIMARY	4	michaelzwilliamson_com.m.id	1	40.00	Using where; Using index

Status	Duration
starting	0.18 ms
Executing hook on transaction	0.01 ms
starting	0.01 ms
checking permissions	0.01 ms
checking permissions	0.01 ms
checking permissions	0.01 ms
Opening tables	0.17 ms
init	0.01 ms
System lock	0.01 ms
optimizing	0.06 ms
statistics	0.19 ms
preparing	0.08 ms
executing	0.48 ms
end	0.01 ms
query end	0.01 ms
waiting for handler commit	0.01 ms
closing tables	0.02 ms
freeing items	0.03 ms
logging slow query	0.04 ms
cleaning up	0.01 ms

id	select_type	table	partitions	type	possible_keys	key	key_len	ref	rows	filtered	Extra
1	SIMPLE	m	NULL	ALL	idx_tag_type,idx_core_content_id	NO INDEX KEY COULD BE USED	NULL	NULL	1	100.00	Using temporary; Using filesort
1	SIMPLE	t	NULL	eq_ref	PRIMARY,tag_idx,idx_access	PRIMARY	4	michaelzwilliamson_com.m.tag_id	1	100.00	Using where
1	SIMPLE	c	NULL	eq_ref	PRIMARY,tag_idx,idx_access,idx_content_type	PRIMARY	4	michaelzwilliamson_com.m.core_content_id	1	100.00	Using where

Status	Duration
starting	0.36 ms
Executing hook on transaction	0.01 ms
starting	0.01 ms
checking permissions	0.01 ms
checking permissions	0.01 ms
checking permissions	0.01 ms
Opening tables	0.11 ms
init	0.01 ms
System lock	0.01 ms
optimizing	0.03 ms
statistics	0.19 ms
preparing	0.04 ms
optimizing	0.01 ms
statistics	0.04 ms
preparing	0.02 ms
executing	0.15 ms
executing	0.03 ms
executing	0.19 ms
executing	0.73 ms
end	0.01 ms
query end	0.01 ms
waiting for handler commit	0.02 ms
closing tables	0.03 ms
freeing items	0.04 ms
logging slow query	0.05 ms
cleaning up	0.01 ms

Status	Duration
starting	0.40 ms
Executing hook on transaction	0.01 ms
starting	0.01 ms
checking permissions	0.01 ms
checking permissions	0.00 ms
checking permissions	0.00 ms
checking permissions	0.00 ms
checking permissions	0.00 ms
checking permissions	0.01 ms
Opening tables	0.18 ms
init	0.01 ms
System lock	0.01 ms
optimizing	0.03 ms
statistics	0.19 ms
preparing	0.03 ms
Creating tmp table	0.27 ms
executing	7.22 ms
end	0.05 ms
query end	0.01 ms
waiting for handler commit	0.42 ms
closing tables	0.04 ms
freeing items	0.27 ms
logging slow query	0.10 ms
cleaning up	0.02 ms

Status	Duration
starting	0.23 ms
Executing hook on transaction	0.01 ms
starting	0.01 ms
checking permissions	0.01 ms
checking permissions	0.00 ms
checking permissions	0.00 ms
checking permissions	0.01 ms
Opening tables	0.15 ms
init	0.01 ms
System lock	0.01 ms
optimizing	0.04 ms
statistics	0.11 ms
executing	0.03 ms
end	0.00 ms
query end	0.00 ms
waiting for handler commit	0.01 ms
closing tables	0.02 ms
freeing items	0.03 ms
cleaning up	0.01 ms

Status	Duration
starting	0.67 ms
Executing hook on transaction	0.01 ms
starting	0.01 ms
checking permissions	0.00 ms
checking permissions	0.01 ms
checking permissions	0.07 ms
checking permissions	0.04 ms
checking permissions	0.01 ms
checking permissions	0.01 ms
Opening tables	0.28 ms
init	0.01 ms
System lock	0.02 ms
optimizing	0.06 ms
statistics	0.27 ms
preparing	0.06 ms
Creating tmp table	0.26 ms
executing	1.94 ms
end	0.01 ms
query end	0.01 ms
waiting for handler commit	0.03 ms
closing tables	0.02 ms
freeing items	0.04 ms
logging slow query	0.07 ms
cleaning up	0.01 ms