http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/07/opinion/sunday/nocera-what-gun-lovers-think.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

General Comments:

Of course, even his opponent seems to be unaware of the Heller Decision, and doesn't see a problem in compromising a right.

"Universal background checks without registration" are mutually exclusive. The one predicates the other.

And once you allow someone to define limits on a right, they can then move the goalposts, and have.

From a civil liberties POV, it doesn't matter how many people are alleged to die. We could jail more criminals without that pesky Fifth Amendment, too.

Of course, the columnist is also defending the Patriot Act. Which likely puts him at odds with most Americans.

Back to the opponent endorsing safe storage--define it. What constitutes safe? At what point am I liable for someone else's actions? Should someone be criminally liable if their minor accesses porn on an "insecure" computer?

They're both statists. One is just slightly less statist than the other.

A pox on both their houses.

~~~~~

So I sent this:


Mike Williamson  
11:16 AM (5 minutes ago)       
to danbaum

Sorry, sir, but your statements show you clearly lack the professional knowledge to write about firearms in any capacity.
You were slightly less statist than the NYT columnist, which I appreciate.
But there's a huge amount you need to learn in order to have an informed opinion on the matter.
However, I always appreciate writers getting notice and making money. I wish you well.

Mike

Recent work from Michael Z. Williamson
TOUR OF DUTY, Baen Books, August 2013
HOW TO SURVIVE THE END OF THE WORLD, National Geographic Channel, 2014 (props and consulting)


http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com
http://www.SharpPointyThings.com custom blades and historical costumes



Dan Baum   
11:18 AM (3 minutes ago)       
to me


So sir, but go fuck yourself.

~~~

And this guy claims to be on our side.

I thought I posted this a few years back, but it's updated now, so:

That it was legitimate for Bill Clinton to claim military leadership as "head of the Arkansas National Guard" which at the time was sitting at home, but illegitimate for Sarah Palin to claim military leadership as head of the Alaska National Guard in wartime, with all the supplemental Arctic rescue missions it performs.

That Palin is unfit for office because her daughter is pregnant at 17, and her husband had a DUI a decade ago.  This does not apply to Obama, whose mother was pregnant at 17 and whose father had multiple DUIs.

That Vice-Presidential candidate Palin serving as governor for two years, mayor for a decade, with prior experience as a councilwoman has "very little executive experience," compared to Presidential Candidate Obama's…ZERO executive experience.

That Obama is qualified because he was a "community organizer" in Chicago.  Just like Al Capone (who ran soup kitchens and thrift shops).

That Obama has more executive experience than "Mayor" Palin, with a monthly budget of $21 million and 2500 employees, conveniently forgetting that "Governor" Palin had 77,000 employees, two foreign nations to deal with, and a monthly budget of $1.2 billion.

That there's nothing questionable about someone spending $21 million a month to get a job that pays $400,000 a year, when that candidate claims to care about the poor.

That the collapse of financial institutions because of bad lending practices mandated by law under Bill Clinton, which led to one of Obama's friends making tens of millions of dollars, is the fault of the Bush administration.

That the Democrats will have withdrawal strategies to remove our troops from the Balkans, Korea, Germany, Japan, the Philippines and Italy Real Soon Now.

That gas prices going up are good for the environment, and bad for the economy, and something must be done about it.

That oil companies operating at less than a 10% margin are evil bastards, unlike those banks and pharmaceutical companies operating at 30%.

That a "windfall profits tax" will show those oil companies, because they would NEVER raise pump prices to recoup the cost.

That a "windfall profits tax" would show those oil companies, especially the four largest who are not US owned or based.

That society must come first, at the expense of the corporations who employ people and generate capital, of the doctors, engineers and other professionals who create society, and that society owes a debt to homeless illiterates for their great contributions.

That Obama finds it acceptable to join a "Coalition of nations" (like in Iraq) to "Remove a despot" (like in Iraq) and "Save innocent populations (like in Iraq) with "UN sanctions" (like in Iraq) but the war in Iraq is wrong.

That the failure of New Orleans cops in the dome to stop the rapes was the fault of BUSH, and not the fault of the MAYOR, whose department it was.

That despite hurricanes Camille and Andrew and warnings from experts going back 20 years and the fact that New Orleans is below sea level, Bush is at fault for not taking precautions for Katrina.

That the governor of Louisiana wouldn't sign over control of the Guard to the feds voluntarily, had a civilian with no military experience attempting to run that operation, waited 24 hours to "think about" Bush' offer of help, spent four hours on TV at a "prayer vigil," and Bush was at fault for the suffering.

That “Easily accessible” New Orleans should have been repaired within hours of “a little rain.”

That despite New Orleans having a Democrat Mayor, a Democrat City Council, and a Democrat Chief of Police, Louisiana having a Democrat Governor, a Democrat Lt. Governor, a Democrat Attorney General; 24 of 39 Democrat State Senators, 67 of 105 Democrat State Representatives, a Democrat Representative in the House from New Orleans, and one of two Senators a Democrat, the disaster after Hurricane Katrina was the fault of the Republicans.

That Bush is responsible for the shortage of military manpower because of the force reductions that took place in 1995.

That Bush should keep his nose out of local matters, but should have stuck his nose into New Orleans pre-emptively with troops.

That Bush should have provided buses to get people out of New Orleans, with no local request, no federal authority, no way to force people aboard, and for all those people who have cars but didn't use them.

That people couldn't evacuate from New Orleans because they didn't have cars, despite the short walking distance, the mass transit, the helpful people giving rides.  Why?  Because the GOVERNMENT should do it for people.

That the governor of Louisiana refusing to let other states' National Guard troops enter the state is Bush' fault.

That the weather problems that have been growing for the last 100 years were created by Bush' environmental policies.  Karl Rove was probably in on it, too.

That the Corps of Engineers recommended a control dam in lieu of levees in the 1950s, and is responsible for the failure of the levees.

That the liberal eco-freaks who demanded levees are not responsible for their failure.  Nor are they responsible for the pollution, decline of aquaculture and decline of bayou due to the levees preventing floodwaters from dispersing silt on a regular basis.

That the lack of buses for evacuation in New Orleans wasn’t the fault of the mayor, but was the fault of G.W. Bush, who secretly sent the Navy SEALs in the night before to cut all the fuel lines, just so blacks would suffer.

That we should have sent people down who "cared."  They wouldn't have had anywhere to stay, any supplies, any way into the city or any way to get people out other than the tools already in use.  But they'd have "Cared."

That Bush was evil for creating HSA and giving FEMA so much power, and should have given it more money and more power for the Katrina disaster.

That the government should have done something about the looting in New Orleans, and not worried about the looting while more important things were going on, and stopped the looting that affected people's lives, but not stopped the looting that was people getting back at "society" for its evils, and stopped the looting, and, and...

That Bush should have stopped the looters, but in a sensitive and compassionate way that respected them as people, to get at the root cause of the looting.

That Bush was wrong for flying over New Orleans without landing, and was wrong for going into New Orleans and wasting time.

That Bush' environmental policy caused hurricane Katrina, which was not the worst storm in history.

That putting refugees into military facilities was “imprisonment,” because of course, they should all have been put up at the Hilton.

That it was a good thing to give out credit cards with $2000 on them for refugees in New Orleans to use to replace critical necessities like plasma screen TVs and Louis Vuitton purses while shopping in nearby Atlanta.

That areas below sea level and subject to flooding are wetlands and must be preserved for nature, as long as they’re occupied by white farmers and not poverty-stricken blacks and bare-breasted college chicks in New Orleans.

That Bush' policy on experimental research with stem cells, which authorized more lines than had existed previously, was insufficient.

And directly lead to the death of Christopher Reeves, as it was GUARANTEED that research would have found a cure that could have been implemented in time to save him.

That US "Dual use equipment" sold to Iraq was military aid, and the "dual use equipment" was all used for peaceful purposes.

That Kuwait, a British Protectorate until 1961, was "A legal part of Iraq" which was a British Protectorate until 1918.

That Iraq has billions of dollars worth of US military equipment like Kalashnikov rifles, Mikoyan-Gurevich planes, Mil helicopters, ZSU armored vehicles, T-72 tanks and SCUD missiles.

That the Soviet weapons Iraq had were a "Secret deal" bought with US $$, arranged by those Soviet loving presidents, Reagan and Bush.

That all nations and governments are to be respected, but the 34 nations backing the US in Iraq are backward puppets.

That "right wing" sources are "Sanitized and biased and have an agenda," so all research should be done with left wing sources that are never sanitized nor biased and have no agenda.

That despite Bush coordinating with Putin to reduce US and Russian warheads from 6000 to 2000, he's a hateful warmonger.

That a family member of a US politician getting a government contract is nepotism and fascism, but a family member of a UN politician getting a UN contract is coincidence or properly vetted.

That embedded reporters never get hurt because they're "pawns," not because they're on the SAFE SIDE of the most powerful weapons in the region when a fight starts.

That US troops have deliberately killed lots of journalists, like, um...er...um...

That Sgrena was deliberately targeted by troops who knew she was coming, while she was traveling at a moderate rate of speed that caused only moderate hydroplaning, then missed her with hundreds of bullets from an armored vehicle and barely scratched her car, killed a "security" man, detained her, released her to tell her story...oh, come ON!  Not even a Communist can be stupid enough to believe this psychotic crap.

That the enlightened, non-bigoted, non-Fascist liberals of the Blue States control most of the economy, so they should get to decide the elections and economic concerns of the nation, and that the Red States are largely redneck, illiterate, Bible-thumping trash who don’t deserve a vote.
 
That the "intelligence failures" around Sept 11 go "all the way to the top."  But only the conservative top, not the liberal top.

That the US didn't give "enough" tsunami aid (26 Dec, 2004), to people who declined to participate in the Tsunami Warning System when it was set up in 1948.

That after the US did give "Enough," it was evil for "undermining" the UN, the only body with the "moral authority" to give aid, by setting up a joint venture with the UK, Australia and Japan to deliver it.

That the UN would have been as honest with tsunami aid as they were with the Oil for Food program.  Oh, wait...

That the tsunami's 250,000 casualties were an unprecedented disaster that had to be dealt with at once, unlike the millions of ongoing dead in Africa.

That Bush was wrong for not speaking out about the tsunami at once, but it was okay for Kofi Annan to finish his three day ski trip in Jackson Hole before flying back to New York to "lead the effort."

That global warming is a serious issue because if the average temperature rises another 1˚C, it will be almost as warm as it was during the Viking Era.

That Bill Clinton operating in Somalia and Haiti without a UN mandate was good, but G.W. Bush operating in Iraq without a UN mandate was bad.

That France operating in Cote d’Ivoire without a UN mandate is okay, but the US operating in Iraq without a UN mandate is bad.  (NOTE:  we now have a UN mandate.)

That the potential profit from oil in Iraq makes the entire war unjustified and immoral, and we should instead go to war in Zimbabwe where there are no US interests, just to prove our morality.

That the people of Iraq must therefore be sacrificed for the moral good, to avoid the risk of an immoral profit.

That gas prices went up not because of growing industry in Asia, new regulations on refining and civil unrest in Venezuela, but because “Bush has oil interests.”

That gas prices are going up because of the oil companies’ political maneuverings.  This would mean there is no shortage driving the prices.

That the doubling of gas prices in 1999 eighteen months before the election was Bush’s fault.

That the doubling of oil prices from 2000-2005, during two wars, was a heinous personal profit by Bush.

That gas hitting half the price (in adjusted dollars) that it hit in 1983 proves this.

That a neighborhood watch is a good thing, unless that neighborhood is on the border where illegal immigrants flood through, in which case it's racist vigilanteism.

That euthanasia of terminally ill patients is a good thing, and mercy killings of critically wounded enemy soldiers is a bad thing.

That liberal Democrats are not racists, and voted against Condi Rice purely from principle, while criticizing Bush for not having "enough" minorities in his cabinet.

That we have a "right wing" press who made serious hay out of this event.

That allowing military recruiters on campus violates the professors' "Free speech" to speak ill of the military.

That Caucasians who riot or kill should be jailed, but minorities who riot or kill are misunderstood and lashing out against repression the only way they have.  This is not a condescending, racist attitude.

That "Africans" have a "different sense of time" than Caucasians, and it is wrong to fire a black employee for tardiness or absenteeism.  This attitude is not condescending or racist toward blacks.

That legislators fleeing the state to prevent a vote is a "Stand."

That collectively storming out of Congress because the Supreme Court made a decision you didn't like isn't a temper tantrum worthy of a three year old.

That selling out your party and swapping alliances after giving voters your word is an act of bravery.

That the Patriot Act, allowing the government to obtain library or bookstore records as “an important tool for investigating and intercepting terrorism” even though they haven't done so is morally repugnant, but banning assault weapons that haven't been used in crime IS "An important tool for fighting crime and terrorism."

That one should serve 2 years in jail for possessing but not using an “assault weapon” in California, and get probation for molesting one’s children.

That by sending food to Saddam we lightened his economic burden so he could buy weapons, therefore we bought him weapons.

That Enron and Arthur Andersen broke the law under Bill Clinton and were punished under George Bush and this is the fault of the Republicans.

That free trade is bad but open borders are good.

That enlisting in the military and traveling to Iraq to fight is a stupid and cowardly copout to the Neocon conspiracy, but ripping "Bless Our Troops" stickers off cars is a brave act of defiance.

That poor people "Have to" enlist in the US Military, because of a Neocon conspiracy to deprive them of jobs.

That the predominantly college educated white male membership of the US military are "minorities" who had no choice but to enlist.

That the predominantly college educated membership of the US military are "poor dumb cattle" who are ignorant of politics.

That there is a "Growing 'Progressive' majority" who apparently don't vote.

That the conspiracy around elections is so huge that Kerry only won CA by 9%.

That 51% is not a mandate for GW Bush, but 38% was a landslide for bill clinton.

That someone on death row who asks to stop appeals and die is sick and incompetent and should be kept alive, but a person who chooses to die when sick should be allowed to.

That the US sold Saddam the weapons of mass destruction he didn't have.

That closing military installations is a good thing, unless it's a base in a liberal congressleech's district that spends billions to employ hundreds.

That a crucifix in a jar of urine is "art" and a Quran in a restroom at a prison is a "Hate crime."

That one should never criticize a person's physical appearance or infirmities, and Ann Coulter is a "deformed skank."

That to counterpoint a "mean people suck" bumper sticker, one should also stick on a "neuter Newt" sticker.  And it's not a mean sentiment.

That Alan Greenspan is controlled by Karl Rove, who had him appointed under Bill Clinton.

That it is acceptable for Muslims to kill Christians and Jews, kill missionaries, burn Bibles, destroy Hindu shrines and build mosques from the rubble, but if an American kicks a Quran, it's a war crime and we're running a "gulag."

That the best way to make a statement is to wear a "Defeat Capitalism and Bush!" Tshirt when ordering coffee at Starbucks.

That it was necessary to "determine the intent" of Democratic voters in FL in 2000.  This does not mean those voters were too stupid to read a name and punch a hole in paper, given pre-perforated paper, a series of holes and a punch, on a ballot designed by their own party.

That it was necessary to "determine the intent" of voters who didn't vote the straight party ticket, because no voter ever votes outside their party.

That a good liberal opposes letting people use guns to defend themselves and their businesses because of the benefits of crime to police, insurance companies and large corporations who can afford the loss their smaller competitors can't.  Only a "rightwinger" would support letting an individual engage in self-determination.

That when a Democrat Congress refused to support Bush’s tax policy and shut down the government, that was the Republicans’ fault, and when a Republican Congress refused to support Clinton’s tax policy and shut down the government, that was the Republicans’ fault, too.  And again for 0bama.

That the Bush administration imprisoned dozens of people under the guise of the war on terror, far worse than FDR who imprisoned only 110,000 Nissei (and other Asians, because they "all look alike"), German-Americans and Italian-Americans in WWII in concentration camps with inadequate food, water and medicine without even accusations, looted and sold their property, attempted to pack the Supreme Court with six additional Justices and had the FBI investigating waitresses who talked to soldiers and sailors as potential "spies" or "prostitutes" and is a textbook example of a liberal icon.

That Republican Strom Thurmond should have apologized for his party’s actions regarding civil rights in the 1950s, when he was a Democrat. (per Daschle)

That no Republican ever helped civil rights, except possibly Abraham Lincoln.

That Democrats run all the low-crime, high-standard of living cities like Detroit, Atlanta, Chicago and DC.

That Bush started a war in Iraq for no good reason, unlike the wars Bill Clinton started in Bosnia, Somalia, Iraq, Haiti and Bosnia.

That Bush cleverly used a time machine to go back to 1987 to give Bechtel contracts in Iraq.

That democrats believe in free speech and artistic expression, like Tipper Gore with her Parents Music Resource Center.

That bill clinton was great for keeping a defense plant open and saving “hundreds of jobs” at a cost of several billion dollars, when he could have paid the employees $1 million lump sum each in severance and spent less.

That using taxpayer money to send poor inner city children to the same schools rich liberals send their children to is “elitist.”

That to keep the pet rats one is giving away safe, a simple note of “No breeders or feeders” will suffice.  And of course, ALL labs prefer using pets of unknown origin to lab raised rats with a clean genetic background.

That it is IMPOSSIBLE for a nation to survive with a lower tax rate than we have now.  No nation has EVER done it.  The US barely survived to the present day without proper taxation.

That as soon as “the rich” are “properly taxed” the investment of new capital by those taxed immediately and without delay improves the overall economy.

That a class war is undesirable, as long as those thieving rich Republicans are made to pay. (Paraphrasing Howard Dean's campaign site).

That Americans are bad for not learning the local language when legally traveling abroad, and Americans are bad for not learning the language of our illegal immigrants.

That we can shoot a projectile into a comet by radio control from several million miles away, but that it is “impossible” to shoot down a missile.

That it is impossible to shoot down a missile, and all those successful trials and the several successes with 1960s designed Patriots are flukes.

That Bush is an idiot who couldn’t help in New Orleans, and should have done more in New Orleans.

That Bush is an evil genius who started a war for profit motives and to get re-elected, and made billions and got re-elected, and is an idiot who has no idea what he’s doing in Iraq.

That the press who cruised by people stuck on their roofs during the New Orleans disaster were doing the “Right thing” by “drawing attention” to it without helping.

That the minor celebrities criticizing the press for that were “just trying to make money by drawing attention to themselves.”

That taking the above, no celebrity should ever make a comment about a disaster.  Unless it’s a liberal comment, then it’s okay.

That Sean Penn, wearing a flak vest, in a four person boat, with an unplugged bilge, with a friend and his publicists was "brave" for floating out in the floodwaters in NOLA, even though he never actually rescued anyone.  

That a conservative government has an obligation to appoint far left judges and cabinet members for “balance,” and a liberal government has an obligation to appoint far left judges and cabinet members to “keep the right out of power.”  For balance, of course.

That the US hasn’t been attacked since Sept 11, and we are therefore less safe.

That conservatives who voted based on fears of further attacks are paranoid.  Liberals who voted the other way based on fears of further attacks are realistic.

That Osama bin Laden and other self-declared enemies didn’t like Bush, therefore the best thing to do would be to take their advice on who to elect.

That Bush deliberately created environmental conditions to create a hurricane for the purpose of killing blacks.

That Bush had sufficient power to create major storms and major disasters.  Maybe we should pray to him in case he becomes a wrathful God.

That Bush was simultaneously an idiot incapable of dealing with Iraq, and a diabolical schemer running a conspiracy so large that none can stop it.

By the way:  Bush is Hitler.

That it was a Good Thing when bill clinton bombed peasants in Bosnia to force sociopath Milosevic to take pity on them and surrender, which he didn’t, and it wasn’t fascistic, incompetent or cruel.

That it was a Bad Thing when Bush liberated Iraq from sociopath Hussein, caught him and began building infrastructure, because it was fascistic, incompetent and cruel.

That cyclical variations in climate disprove some of the outlandish claims of Creationists, but not some of the outlandish claims of proponents of “Global Warming.”

That nuclear waste is a horrible disaster waiting to happen, because there is no way to contain it, despite the 2 billion year old natural reaction sites at Oklo, Gabon.

That radiation from nuclear reactions is dangerous for millions of years, and yet people live at Ground Zero in Hiroshima.

That coal is safer than nuclear, despite coal plant explosions killing more people than nuclear, mining killing more people than nuclear, and waste products in the atmosphere killing more people than nuclear.

That GW Bush was responsible for failing to sign the Kyoto Protocols in the 1990s.

That it was a good idea to drill for oil in ANWR in the 1990s when oil investor Al Gore was Vice President, and a bad idea to drill for oil in ANWR in the 2000s when oil investor GW Bush was president.

That a secret Israeli nuclear test caused the earthquake that led to the Dec 26, 2004 tsunami.  There are no natural events.

That a secret US earthquake machine led to the Haiti and Chile earthquakes of 2010.

That anti-globalization protesters should use big airlines to fly to Sydney to protest capitalism and globalism.

That the US should “consider other nations’ interests” when we vote.  Of course, those nations naturally extend us the same courtesy.

That Alan Greespan is a Republican puppet controlled by Karl Rove, who had him put into power under bill clinton.

That the press has a right wing bias, and the person reporting this is a left wing news commentator.

That one should make up for buying a Mercedes SUV that will never go off road or even bump a railroad track with an “environment” license plate.

That unilateral action in Iraq after Hussein bankrolled terrorists in a foreign country (suicide bombers against Israel), violated 7 U.N. orders over 12 years and sparred with three different administrations was wrong, but unilateral action in Kosovo for purely internal matters was right.

That Kosovo and Bosnia were an immediate threat to the US and our interests and Iraq was not.

That “Bush lied and people died” about being out of Iraq in an undefined amount of time, and Clinton told the truth about being out of Bosnia in six months.

That Bush lied about WMD in Iraq, but Wesley Clark testifying before Congress about WMD in Iraq was just “mistaken.”

That Bush lied about WMD in Iraq, and the 550 tons of yellowcake (enough to build 100-1000 bombs) that Canada bought from the new Iraqi government didn't exist.

That Saddam had that uranium for peaceful purposes for the reactor he was eventually going to build.

That Bush got into the Guard through favors that arranged for him to have a technical degree, perfect eyesight and balance and the ability to pass a flight physical so he could serve in a unit that had already deployed once to Vietnam.

That the 1998 doubling of Halliburton’s military contracts from $284 million was Bush’s fault.

That the Bush administration is helping corporate corruption by convicting or indicting executives of Enron, Arthur Andersen, Tyco International, Worldcom, Adelphia Communications Corporation, Credit Suisse First Boston, HealthSouth Corporation and others, including Martha Stewart, and having the Department of Justice bring charges against 20 executives of Enron alone, and its Corporate Fraud Task Force winning convictions of more than 250 persons to date, and signing the Sarbanes-Oxley legislation in 2002, imposing stringent new accounting rules in the wake of the Arthur Andersen scandal. http://www.factcheck.org/

That Steven Kelman, who was administrator of the Office of Federal Procurement Policy during the Clinton administration stating, “One would be hard-pressed to discover anyone with a working knowledge of how federal contracts are awarded...who doesn't regard these allegations (Halliburton) as being somewhere between highly improbable and utterly absurd,” in the Washington Post is lying.

And so is Bill Clinton's Undersecretary Of Commerce William Reinsch who said, “Halliburton has a distinguished track record.  They do business in some 120 countries. This is a group of people who know what they're doing in a difficult business. It's a particularly difficult business when people are shooting at you.” (Raleigh, NC) News & Observer

That Halliburton’s $7 billion contract authorization, for which they billed the government $2.5 billion, is a Republican-run ripoff.

That despite having lost the LOGCAP contract in 1997, Halliburton was awarded a no-bid contract by the Clinton administration to perform work for US troops in the Balkans.  This is corruption by the Bush administration.

That there’s no point in investigating the fraud in the UN "Oil-for-Food" program instead of Halliburton because Saddam Hussein and Kofi Annan are not candidates in the next presidential election.

That no individual bears blame for wrongdoing.  It’s society’s fault.  To fix those faults, society needs more power to reign in those ills.

That hurting the stockholders of Enron is a good lesson to other corporations.  The thousands of peons unemployed by this are of no concern to a true liberal.

That we should raise the minimum wage to $10 an hour, so we can find out what a $50 cheeseburger tastes like.

That corporate income tax is a good way to get revenue without hurting the individual, because no corporation EVER considers the tax an expense and something to be charged to the consumer.

That the government couldn’t be trusted to treat native peoples and blacks fairly, but can be trusted to treat everyone fairly in the future.  This is not racist.

That the Blue States have more infrastructure and industrial wealth, and therefore their votes should count more than those agriculturalists in the Red States.  This is not a Fascistic endorsement of corporatism.

That Democrats who appoint blacks and make press releases about it are not racist, but Republicans who appoint blacks and just get on with business are racist.

That blacks appointed by Republicans are usually pale by the “Brown bag” test, and therefore not black enough to really be counted as black.  The person telling you this is a white liberal and not a racist.

That the liberals in State Dept arranged sales of commonly sold materials such as chemicals and university grade disease samples for study to Iraq, while the conservatives in Defense objected.  Twenty years later, this is the fault of conservatives.

That Hussein converted crop dusters to spray chemicals and mount guns.  This is our fault for selling them to him.  Obviously, anyone’s motives for buying agricultural equipment should be examined.  This is not paranoid when done by liberals.  When done by conservatives, it’s a paranoid attempt to cause peasants to starve.  Even if it’s the same incident.

That Powell and Condi were appointed because of traits such as loyalty, intelligence and competence, not because of their race.  This proves Bush is racist because he didn’t find people with darker skin to improve black “visibility.”

That Bush was the first consecutively elected governor of TX, president for two terms, a Major League Baseball team owner, an energy CEO, a fighter pilot, a key player in another president’s election, a Harvard and Yale graduate, and a &l

I'm going to show I can create a better conspiracy then the conspiritards.

"Hey, we need you to help us crash airliners into the WTC and kill several thousand people to further our agenda."

"WTF?  Dude...is this a joke?  Go @#$^ yourself."

"Hey, we want you to help us orchestrate shooting some kindergartners to get control in place."

"What kind of #@$ing monster are you?  Seriously."

"Hey, we want to set off a couple of bombs at the Boston Marathon, so we can get the drone program and RFID in place.  If we do it right, it shouldn't hurt many people, though of course, collaterals are possible.  Just some nice loud distractions at the end.  That way, any large gathering will be a just target for drones, scans and otherwise. Overall, this will mean less real attacks.  The cost benefit is positive."

"Makes sense.  Okay, I'll help."

BANG!

"Dude!  WTF?  That actually killed and maimed a lot of people!  You said that wasn't going to happen."

"Well, it had to be big enough to get people's attention."

"That's not what I signed on for.  I'll tell..."

"Who, exactly?  Even if you managed to tie us in, you're complicit and the mob would kill you.  And you carried the bombs, so you're the logical suspect. We're all high-ranking officials with excellent cover.  Best keep your mouth shut if you know what's good for you."

"!@#$&!"

"Yeah, whatever.  Remember, we need drones, RFID and better monitoring of the internet.  Even if you blame this on the Muslims."

~~~

I don't believe it, but this one would at least be feasible.

In reality, this is going to come down to:

RIFs who have learned to scale their attacks and keep quiet about them, lest the US military show up and sodomize them with JDAMs, or some native crazy who hates something or other.  If the latter, given the target, I expect it's some anti-capitalist lefty.

I like to interact with people, and I find I learn more about them, and about myself, by interacting with people I may not agree with. Either one of us persuades the other, or we learn more about ourselves, or we find new insights into our positions.
This apparently isn't common.
I've occasionally interacted on Facebook with one Ashley Protagonist Holmes, as she styles herself. She's big on gender issues, race and social issues. I probably agree with her about 40% overall, which is better than average.
I was looking at some links on her page, and the tone there was strident. I do that myself. No harm, no foul. However, if one is fighting stereotypes, one should avoid using them oneself. I made a polite comment that a message aimed at people in general agreement, with the intent of bringing them closer, should be worded amiably, not accusatorily. She seemed to miss the thrust, replied with something else, and I posted my infamous summary of worldwide historical repression, because a lot of Americans (apparently including her) miss that there's a lot more to it than black/white and the former Confederate slavery.
Her response was "Oh, wow, a middle class white male has an opinion on race. I don't think I'll waste time reading that." And it ended with, "Why don't you actually try talking to some black people?"
My first thought, was "Wait, this teenager is white, middle classed, middle American. This is not just the pot calling the kettle black, given my background, it's the pot calling the fine china black."
Then I thought, "That can't be what I just read. Did I just walk into The Simpsons or Monty Python?"
Then it was, "Wait, this person is supposed to be passingly aware of my background, WTF led to this outburst? Did her brain just shut down and she revert to tribal shouting?"
I bowed out of the conversation, because obviously, no rational discourse was going to be possible. We'd gone from generalizations to epithets, and by "we" I mean "she."
After that, I decided I needed to finish edits on my story collection coming out in August, and then come back to it.
So, let's go back to, "Why don't you actually try talking to some black people?"
~~~
CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.
I was in high school in the early 80s, peak of the break dancing craze, and I was a pretty damned good dancer. That means I hung out with a lot of black guys—at clubs, at school, at home. They came to my place to practice, I went to theirs. Sometimes our parents invited us or them to stay for dinner. I remember one who had a vivid sense of humor, including self-deprecating jokes when he found out we had watermelon. And yes, occasionally, one of them was a punk, but there were a lot more white punks who wanted to emulate what they thought black people were like.
Most of them lived in a slightly poorer area near the school, with numerous material goods--cars, projection TVs, which I'm led to believe was because their traditional areas were cheaper, so status was shown materially. (And for the record, we spent a couple of years receiving food stamps and other assistance after my parents divorced.)
My mother sold real estate, and occasionally (and let me stress occasionally) someone would ask about racial makeup of a neighborhood, or ask her to limit showings to whites only, and she would tell them it was illegal for her to discuss such things, or to attempt to limit purchases. Interestingly, it was generally poorer whites who were concerned about this, not middle or upper class, and it happened only a handful of times over several years.
Of course, that small element of racism does affect things, as does the natural tendency of people to form into tribes of like-minded individuals.
I had black teachers in school, and they were generally the funnest, most informative and down to earth.
The observant respondent would remember that I served in the US military. They may also be aware that the military is no longer segregated. Guess what? I was trained, and trained with, people of every race and color, some of whom barely spoke English, being either recent immigrants like myself, or from the Philippines, where we have a treaty agreement allowing them to join our military directly.
And, when I got to my permanent duty station, my roommate was…BLACK! Kersey was an odd duck from Cleveland, and we didn't talk much, until the time he threatened to kill me with his bare hands and an iron pipe, and shortly got some mental health treatment and processed out. It seems other people had had issues too.
My next roommate was a white kid from Oregon, an alcoholic, didn't last long, and moved into an abandoned mobile home with no power because he couldn't keep even a minimum wage job.
So, the last three years of my service I roomed with Wendell, who'd trained in an overlapping timeframe with me in Texas, so we already knew each other slightly. Wendell was not your typical black, I guess, since he was an immigrant from Antigua, thereby being British.
Let me elucidate for the civilians: we spent three years serving in the same unit, and sharing a 15' square barracks room. I knew him pretty damned well. We drank together, cruised bars together, did road trips to conventions together, and did a bunch of field exercises together.
Now, I had to sit down and think about all this, because my roommate was not "That black guy, Wendell." My roommate was "Wendell, the sergeant from the Power Section I spent three years of my life with." I've said it before, I will say it again—race is only important if you insist on making it important. If anyone asked, "Who do you room with?" I replied, "Wendell, Power Shop." And no one ever said, "Oh, right, the black guy." Largely because we had a LOT of "black guys" including the First Sergeant, our Section Superintendent and one of the engineers. So, yes, I took orders from black people, Hispanics, Asians, women, and never kept a tally because it never fucking mattered to me. Were they competent? By and large. Did they have the authority to define my tasks? Yes.
Were there racists in the unit? Yes, a few.
Now, for reasons not relevant here, engineering tends to congregate immigrants. My shop had me, a Mexican, and a Filipino and five native born Americans (one of them black). In the unit of 120, there were a couple of other Mexicans (And I mean men with Mexican passports, working on their citizenship, as I was), several Filipinos, another Brit, a German. We hung out in groups of our own nationality, and groups of immigrants vs native borns, and Engineers vs other units, and cadre vs transients, and AF vs other branches, and military vs civilian, because that's what people do. I rarely saw color itself be a defining matter, except among a handful (both white and black).
I do recall one asshole in my shop liked to refer to us as the "Fuzzy little foreigners." Though he generally didn't deliver it in a derogatory fashion, and we wore the sobriquet proudly. And note: I was included in that definition, despite being "White."
It wasn't the only bigotry I encountered from him, and that first roommate, Kersey, repeatedly mocked my birth nation to my face. Words were had over that. Occasionally, other people made comments about "Damned foreigners taking our jobs" and expressed that we shouldn't be allowed to own property or businesses.
Now, at least I was able to honestly identify the assholes, since I don't "look" like an immigrant, though I did still have a bit of an accent. They'd usually trot it out right in front of me, against regulations and common sense. But, bigotry works in all directions, and if you assume because I look like a certain imagined stereotype, I must think and act like said stereotype, congratulations, you just did it yourself.
So, moving on, I was Reserve and Guard for 20 years after that, and again, served with many people of many races and cultures. In fact, my last deployment was a 4-way split between Utah Air Guard (mostly Mormons), New Jersey Air Guard (mixed bag), Guam Air Guard (Mostly Chamorro people, and Catholic) and Puerto Rico Air Guard (very Hispanic and very Catholic) in a desert full of Arabs, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Filipinos (all Muslim), Indians (from India, and mostly Hindu, with some Muslims), Georgians (Muslims and Christians), Japanese, Koreans, Aussies and Brits. And being the military—you don't get a choice. You go fix, move or fight with whomever you're told to, and you have to manage to get along. And I enjoyed the hell out of it. We took turns doing Saturday night cultural dinners.
But that was Reserve, meaning I had a real job and a real home otherwise. And in college, I was a stripper. That meant I hung out with other strippers, mostly female, including a Thai and a very astute, striking black woman working her way through law school.
Oh, yes—it was a mostly Asian neighborhood we lived in.
Now, as far as Indianapolis, for anyone familiar with it, go take a look at East 52nd Street. I'll wait. What color are most of the people in that area? Oh, right—THEY'RE BLACK! Didn't matter to me. Most of them were good neighbors, though it was amusing watching the "photographer" next door, who never had models or materials or any camera gear, get busted by 17 cop cars and a SWAT van. That is, until he went to jail for dealing drugs and his ex and her friends burgled my house. But yup, several years in a black neighborhood as one of the few white people, and it didn't bother me at all. My daughter at age 3 insisted on stopping at several local revivals, because she's always loved to dance, and a bunch of people dancing and singing was definitely her thing, even if we're not Christian. (And before that we lived in the Irvington neighborhood, which might have a few blacks, too. I honestly never bothered to keep a tally, as hard as that is for some people to believe.)
A former girlfriend and I had a several month long affair with a full blooded Sauk woman who was a very strong LGBT and feminist activist. We didn't agree on everything, but I certainly learned a lot.
Quite a few of these people—such as the last lady—would have a strong level of agreement with many of your positions. Some would agree in part (and I do myself). Some would not agree at all. In the subjective world of human interaction, there are solution sets of right and wrong, that intersect in various ways. If you're stuck looking for one point solution, you clearly didn't manage calculus, and might need to go back and look at basic algebra again.
But let's move back to my childhood for a bit—I grew up quite poor near Liverpool, originally in a small flat with no central heat and no TV. My father is Scottish, my mother is English, and if you bother to read a little history, you might find that the two cultures had a few issues over the last few centuries.
My maternal grandfather was an RAF officer, and my mother spent several years as a child in Rhodesia, when it was Rhodesia, with all the household and base staff being local Africans. If I recall correctly, India, Cyprus and Kenya were in there, too.
Now, Britain, or rather, England, has its own history, but most of its colonial repressions were overseas, and for different motivations. And that's key. When I meet someone of a different color, my first thought isn't, and can't be, "OMG! This person's ancestors were slaves and my family profited from that!" Nope. The Brits pretty much didn’t keep slaves, my working class family certainly didn't, though several likely served on a few slave-busting ships.
No, when I meet someone of exotic looks for the area I'm in, my default thought is, "Oh, this person must be of or descended from one of our colonies." And even if some of the colonials were lower class, lower class is INFINITELY above "slave." There is simply no way possible for me to look at a black person and feel what a native born American of any color feels. Add to that, I moved here in 1978, so nothing that happened before that can possibly involve me.
If you look at my FB wall, you'll find blacks, Hispanics, whites, Asians (actually in Asia, as well as Asian Americans), transsexuals, gays, bisexuals, white people married to blacks, Hispanics and Asians, and people with backgrounds that include multiple races, cultures and ethnicities.
My friends include agents, authors, editors and technical people of (a variety of) color. We often disagree, and I've noticed that color is an issue for a lot of Americans. It's inescapable. Given the segregation issues shortly before I was born, the war a century before that, and the slavery before that, I accept it's a valid concern. But here's the important part: I don't share that concern, and assuming I do, can or must is trying to stereotype me based on my skin color.
So, you tell me, does that count as "actually talking to black people"? I'm adding up somewhere around a couple of decades or more of my experience, though as I said, I don't really keep a tally for score. I talk to PEOPLE.
See, the problem with a lot of self-claimed "liberals" is they're not. They're only tolerant if you agree with them. This seems to include you. You like it when I agree on certain gender issues. You go childishly apeshit when I just might have an informed opinion that differs slightly from yours, based on my own subjective experiences, broader world view, longer life and different background.
But even if I am "Wrong" on an entirely subjective subject, then any persuasion aimed at me must be diplomatic and with cited sources, otherwise it's simply an opinion, and available evidence suggests my opinion is more informed than yours…which does not mean it is necessarily objectively correct.
You don' t want actual debate, because it might shake you out of your comfortable worldview. What you want is tribal association.
If you look at me and assume based on my skin color I think like some stereotype of a middle class American white guy—you're a racist. If you assume that all black people agree with the position you've assigned them in your worldview—you're a racist. If you insist that people can't tell the same jokes about this President that they told about previous presidents because he's partly black and that somehow makes things different—you're a racist (especially as you insist simultaneously they can't treat him differently).
Much like the most virulent anti-gays are often hiding a secret part of their orientation that scares them, the most vocal users of the race epithet frequently demonstrate the most stereotyping and racism.
After all, let's look at your screen name again: "Ashley Protagonist Holmes." Ah, yes, the "PROTAGONIST!" The white, middle class, middle American woman flying in to right wrongs and correct perceptions, and tell people how they must think and feel, on behalf of those poor minorities who aren't capable of doing so themselves. And if you have a different perception than she? Well, then maybe you need to talk to people on her approved list, to learn the right things. No right-thinking person could disagree.
You're not a protagonist. You're not even an antagonist. You're an annoying little nit. And until you can accept and believe there are people with different worldviews, who may cross paths with you, share the path for some of the journey before taking another route, or walk alongside without joining you, you will continue to be only a minor irritant, accomplishing nothing.
In short, you need to learn how to be liberal and tolerant.
You might start by actually looking up the Wikipedia article on the word "privilege" and consider the many definitions and meanings it can have.
And then maybe go talk to some black people…who don't entirely agree with you.

I like to interact with people, and I find I learn more about them, and about myself, by interacting with people I may not agree with. Either one of us persuades the other, or we learn more about ourselves, or we find new insights into our positions.

This apparently isn't common.

I've occasionally interacted on Facebook with one [name redacted by request], as she styles herself. She's big on gender issues, race and social issues. I probably agree with her stances about 40% overall, which is better than average.

I was looking at some links on her page, and the tone there was strident. I do that myself. No harm, no foul. However, if one is fighting stereotypes, one should avoid using them oneself. I made a polite comment that a message aimed at people in general agreement, with the intent of bringing them closer, should be worded amiably, not accusatorily. She seemed to miss the thrust, replied with something else, and I posted my infamous summary of worldwide historical repression, because a lot of Americans (apparently including her) miss that there's a lot more to it than black/white and the former Confederate slavery.

Her response was "Oh, wow, a middle class white male has an opinion on race. I don't think I'll waste time reading that." And it ended with, "Why don't you actually try talking to some black people?"

My first thought, was "Wait, this teenager is white, middle classed, middle American. This is not just the pot calling the kettle black, given my background, it's the pot calling the fine china black."

Then I thought, "That can't be what I just read. Did I just walk into The Simpsons or Monty Python?"

Then it was, "Wait, this person is supposed to be passingly aware of my background, WTF led to this outburst? Did her brain just shut down and she revert to tribal shouting?"

I bowed out of the conversation, because obviously, no rational discourse was going to be possible. We'd gone from generalizations to epithets, and by "we" I mean "she."

After that, I decided I needed to finish edits on my story collection coming out in August, and then come back to it.

So, let's go back to, "Why don't you actually try talking to some black people?"

~~~

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

I was in high school in the early 80s, peak of the break dancing craze, and I was a pretty damned good dancer. That means I hung out with a lot of black guys—at clubs, at school, at home. They came to my place to practice, I went to theirs. Sometimes our parents invited us or them to stay for dinner. I remember one who had a vivid sense of humor, including self-deprecating jokes when he found out we had watermelon. And yes, occasionally, one of them was a punk, but there were a lot more white punks who wanted to emulate what they thought black people were like.

Most of them lived in a slightly poorer area near the school, with numerous material goods--cars, projection TVs, which I'm led to believe was because their traditional areas were cheaper, so status was shown materially. (And for the record, we spent a couple of years receiving food stamps and other assistance after my parents divorced.)

My mother sold real estate, and occasionally (and let me stress occasionally) someone would ask about racial makeup of a neighborhood, or ask her to limit showings to whites only, and she would tell them it was illegal for her to discuss such things, or to attempt to limit purchases. Interestingly, it was generally poorer whites who were concerned about this, not middle or upper class, and it happened only a handful of times over several years.

Of course, that small element of racism does affect things, as does the natural tendency of people to form into tribes of like-minded individuals.

I had black teachers in school, and they were generally the funnest, most informative and down to earth.

The observant respondent would remember that I served in the US military. They may also be aware that the military is no longer segregated. Guess what? I was trained, and train