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- Written by Michael Z Williamson
This is why it's impossible to have a rational debate with someone irrational:
Mark Underwood
Shared publicly Sep 17, 2013
Can we have guns sensibly regulated this time?...or are the electorate going to keep letting the NRA push their redneck buttons and persuade them that they have a constitutional right to be senselessly massacred by the next total whacko fruitcake who has easy access to a gun?
No?...OK just let more innocent people die senselessly then right?...what a good idea :-/
John Underwood
Sep 17, 2013
You waste your time on expressing yourself to a nation hell bent on selfdestruction. American's may have many talents but selfless introspection is not amongst them.
Brandon Jamison
Sep 17, 2013
I would like to hear what sensibly controls would have prevented this shooting. And please let's focus on controls surrounding the actual guns.
Mark Underwood
Sep 18, 2013
+Brandon Jamison
All firearms except for hunting rifles that are registered to an active farm or gun club are made illegal.
For 2 years we then impose very large fines on anyone found with a gun, we use the revenue raised from these fines to buy back firearms from those who voluntarily hand them in.
For another year we increase the fines and continue buyback and reward informants who assist in the collection of illegal firearms.
After this initial period of legal grace anyone found with a gun goes to jail for life.
This gets rid of the guns and also any crazy or criminal people who still have guns after the three year period of grace.
Also you now no longer have the hassle of proving cases against criminals...if they have a gun they are criminals by definition...so getting the bad guys off the streets suddenly becomes much more efficient.
Result a much much safer country.
Brandon Jamison
Sep 18, 2013
I said sensible and would have prevented this shooting. Fails on both points.
Mark Underwood
Sep 18, 2013
+Brandon Jamison the sad thing is in a country where guns have been allowed to become as ubiquitous as they are ...this is the only sensible alternative. We just need to face the reality that the evening news confronts us with most nights of the week...or continue to delude ourselves that there is some "safe" way to allow our fellow citizens to walk around carrying murder weapons.
Your conclusion that what i suggest is crazy is causing innocent people to die every day if we do not take the appropriate level of action.
This is not a constitutional debate it is quite simply a state of emergency, it needs to be recognized as such and treated as such by any rational society.
...the question is "are we a rational society?"
Brandon Jamison
Sep 18, 2013
When one wack job shuts down, our nations capital, congress, countless schools and a naval base with a freaking shotgun, the answer is no. So freaking timid...
Are you volunteering to do the first door to door search and seizure? I do not think sensible means what you think it means.
Mark Underwood
Sep 18, 2013
+Brandon Jamison but what is the alternative Brandon ? I have really tried to come up with some watered down alternative but you/I/wee have to face the reality that as long as we accept guns in our society many innocent lives will be lost because of them.
I think you are still not appreciating the seriousness of the situation. Perhaps because it seems normal to you (if you grew up in the States?).
If you did not then your opinion is highly unusual. The only way Americas situation can be seen as anything but sheer insanity is if you have drunk the 2nd amendment coolaid. This was an amendment made for cowboys and indians not modern people packed together like sardines ruled over by a government with drones and cluster bombs.
There is absolutely no justification for arming your electorate except to protect yourself from your fellow armed citizens, which i am sure you would agree is just a ridiculous situation for a rational society to put themselves in.
Brandon Jamison
Sep 18, 2013
Okay a few things before we proceed.
Not a constitutional discussion? You are talking about laws correct? Is not the constitution the highest law in the land?
Cowboys and Indians? Do you mean the Indians who were here before us and not citizens of the US?
Your point made about drones and cluster bombs is exactly why we should not give power over to the government. All other rights are forfeited at that point. The sort of security you talk about already sounds like prison so why would that be a deterrent to possessing weapons?
Mark Underwood
Sep 18, 2013
+Brandon Jamison NO...absolutely no, the constitution is nowhere near as valuable as a persons common sense. The constitution was written by people not gods...even the new pope sees the possibility that god was fallible...so the idea that people hundreds of years ago would have the answers to all our problem for eternity is not reasonable...of course the constitution should be balanced against the common sense of the people.
The constitution is now in direct opposition to my and many other peoples common sense...maybe one day yours too if you trust your own judgement.
You have a choice: honour a small passage in a document written a long time ago by people from a different period and allow people to die on mass...or use your common sense and realize this amendment needs amending.
Living is safety does not sound like a prison to me, living in fear is restrictive but safety = freedom
Brandon Jamison
Sep 18, 2013
+Louis Stell
Louis Stell
Sep 18, 2013
As +Mike Williamson stated so eloquently, alcoholic beverages are responsible for a helluva lot more deaths annually than firearms including THE CHILDREN. If ya'll gun grabbers are so concerned, why not ban and prohibit alcohol, it does no one any good, is not needed, purely a recreational thing responsible for tens of thousands of deaths every year ..................... wait, that didn't work out so well.
As far as confiscation goes, better let that simmer on the backburner for another 30 years or so, still a generation away from the full benefit of the programming.
Or buy a lot more backhoes.
Sheesh.
Brandon Jamison
Sep 18, 2013
The new pope bit was classic!
Mike Williamson
Sep 18, 2013
How about we "sensibly regulate" the internet to reduce the risk of child predators? Professionals, such as me, with background checks, can have internet access at home. Non-professionals can access the internet from libraries. It's not a violation of the First Amendment--we're not telling you what you can say or look at. We're just regulating where you look at it, and logging your browser history to help tackle crime.
Are you reasonable, or are you a free speech nut who supports pedophiles?
Mark Underwood
Yesterday 10:11 AM
If I buy a bottle of wine there is no intention to cause future harm.
If I buy a gun it is the deliberate purchase of a lethal weapon that has been carefully and specifically designed to kill people. It is disingenuous in the extreme to compare things that may cause death accidentally with the use of muder weapons to deliberately slaughter innocent people.
So far this year we have had a mass shooting (more than 4 dead/injured at a time) for 250 out of 261 days!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
Whilst drinking wine "may" cause unintended injury and death and certainly do, injury and death are not implicit in their use. They also can be demonstrated to to have many positive effects within society, even drinking brings millions of people happiness even though it also brings great sadness.
A gun simply brings death and destruction.
Once you take a loaded gun out of a drawer your purpose is to cause injury and death whether it is self defence or not. You don't take a gun out at a party and watch people smile or laugh...you take out a gun to kill.
If you take out another weapon (a knife?) the purpose may be the same, but it is harder (by a huge order of magnitude) to kill someone with a knife. In fact it is very hard to kill a person with anything except a gun, a gun just takes an imperceptible squeeze from an "emotional removed" distance...and a human being is lost to those who love them forever.
a 4 year old shot his sister in July !...a four year old!
- Details
- Written by Michael Z Williamson
http://mobile.nationaljournal.com/domesticpolicy/navy-yard-shows-fallacy-of-nra-s-more-guns-solution-20130917
About the Washington Naval Yard:
The Navy Yard shooting exposes a fallacy in that argument. A military facility, the Navy Yard had plenty of good guys with weapons who were nonetheless were unable to stop Aaron Alexis, the alleged shooter, from killing a dozen innocent persons. In the coming weeks, we'll learn more about Navy Yard security and how Alexis was able to thwart it. (We'll also learn more about how he obtained his arms, but let's leave that aside for now.)
True, the Navy Yard is not a heavily armed facility. It's not like, say, walking into a military base in the U.S. let alone onto a war zone. But neither was it the kind of gun-free school zone that the NRA has described as an inviting target for crazed shooters. It was at least as heavily armed as we can expect any elementary school could ever be under the National School Shield program. And yet, carnage.
You note it's "not heavily armed."
So, let us consider: Should we disarm the few guards they have, or have more guards? Which is likely to stop a shooter? Please explain your answer.
"You weapon experts need to help us! We've tried nothing, and it hasn't worked, and we're all out of ideas!"
"Get more weapons, better dispersed."
"What? Are you some kind of NRA nutjob? How is more violence the answer?"
~~~
Before an answer can work, the person asking the question must be willing to abandon their prejudices.
- Details
- Written by Michael Z Williamson
How about we "sensibly regulate" the internet to reduce the risk of child predators? Professionals, such as me, with background checks, can have internet access at home. Non-professionals can access the internet from libraries. It's not a violation of the First Amendment--we're not telling you what you can say or look at. We're just regulating where you look at it, and logging your browser history to help tackle crime.
Are you reasonable, or are you a free speech nut who supports pedophiles?
- Details
- Written by Michael Z Williamson
I just saw this comment on a FB forum about Starbucks:
"Went to Starbucks this morning. No guns. So peaceful."
Dear utter fucking retard:
Below is the list of shootings that have taken place at Starbucks:
~~~
Now, there have been a few altercations, usually because retarded pussies like yourself insisted on threatening or attacking people who were obeying the law and happened to be armed. This proves you really weren't afraid of them shooting you, or you'd have run screaming.
So what you're saying is, "It was peaceful because I didn't throw a panty-shitting tantrum over my fellow citizens living their lives in a way I don't approve of."
How special for you.
Moving on--how do you KNOW there were no guns? I keep mine concealed, and it's easy to confirm that I really know how to use it. You'll never see it unless I actually need it. But it's there. And I was in my local Starbucks. So there were, in fact guns in Starbucks.
I guess you think that little letter they sent out, that someone photographed, means something. Let me explain the law to you:
A corporate policy letter has no legal weight on private citizens (and isn't your side the one that hates corporations telling people what to do?).
Unless there is a sign on the door, the policy doesn't exist, from a legal perspective.
Even IF there are signs on the door, that only matters in states that have such a law, which specify the size, wording, color, placement and height of said signage.
In most states, the sign STILL has no legal weight. Unless and until the staff actually determine I'm armed, AND ask me to remove my weapon from the premises, I'm perfectly legal.
So there are going to be guns there EVERY DAY.
In fact, I'm going to make it a point to carry a gun into Starbuck's every day from now on. Even if I just walk through and say hi and keep walking.
So there are guns in Starbuck's.
And you'll never know which customers have them. :*
Just as a final note--those signs and letters don't stop actual criminals.
So yes, it really comes down to, "I want to stop people from living a lifestyle I don't like."
Congratulations. You and Fred Phelps are in good company with the Klan and the gay bashers.
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